John Lee Dumas of EOFire On What It Takes To Scale An Online Business Past $100,000 Profit Per Month

John Lee Dumas of EOFire On What It Takes To Scale An Online Business Past $100,000 Profit Per Month



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Trevor Fenner: How are you, man? Good to meet you. Good to finally see your face.

John Lee Dumas: Good to meet you as well. Pretty excited to rock the mic today.

Trevor Fenner: Yeah, excited man. I've been following you for so long.

Trevor Fenner: Actually, it's kind of cool when you came out with Podcaster's Paradise, it totally inspired the ... my brand name which is eCommerce Paradise so I just wanted to say thank you for that and your inspiration is just like help me push forward really far. I wanted to ask you though. With your podcasting experience, it's been wild and crazy. You've scaled so fast. You're able to do a podcast every single day and release it for so long. You are somewhere around 2,035 episodes, I think I just checked. How are you able to manage that process and scale so quickly like that?

John Lee Dumas: Yeah, so it wasn't easy and it wasn't overnight but it was with a dedicated focus of saying, “Listen, if I'm going to make this work, I've got to be at a scale. I've got to be able to leverage my time. I've got to be able to figure stuff off.” So batching became the way do things. For instance, right now you are interview five of 20 today. I'm doing 20 back to back interviews on other people's shows. I do that one day per month. And then for my podcast, I have the same thing. I batch my episodes so I get in the right mindset and that day, I just bring the heat. It's like my Superbowl. I just, for however many interviews I'm doing back to back, I just absolutely rock it.

John Lee Dumas: So as you know, it's the discipline. It's the focus. It's being productive, doing the right things like producing the right content, that's allowed me to for 2,000 straight episodes, have a show go live every single day and I'm very proud of that feat and it's been a great journey.

Trevor Fenner: Yeah. It's amazing man and it really is a feat. You know, I'm just getting into podcasting myself and trying to manage doing all the content every single day. You know, sometimes I just can't do it all the time. Do you have any hacks or tips or maybe like some tips and advice for team building and stuff like that for people that want to get to that kind of level with their content marketing like you have?

John Lee Dumas: I think a big mistake that people make when it comes to team building is that they don't first know the task themselves. And now the reality is I know that we don't necessarily want to learn all the ins and outs of every single part of our business but if you are really going to be building a team, you need to be able to train that individual on what you do. So my team right now, you know, we have three full-time virtual assistants and multiple independent contractors. Everything that they do for our business, I know how to do. And by the way, they're almost all better than me at the things that they do now because they do it and I don't do it now but I learned that process first so that I knew how to speak the language, how to train them, how to make sure that they were doing things the way I wanted to it.

John Lee Dumas: So when you're building a team, just recognize. Listen, you're going to save time in the long run but in the short run, you've got to dedicate your time, your energy, your bandwidth to learning the stuff, setting up the process, how you want to learn it, and then being able to train somebody to take that off your plate but then when they're coming back to you, you know, in the future, you're able to speak the lingo and also, you're able to know when they're not doing things right because you get it 'cause you've done it.

John Lee Dumas: So that's an important and critical part to building a team.

Trevor Fenner: That's awesome. Yeah, I think that's really important. You've not only built an awesome podcast but you've also built an awesome community around your brand. You talk about Fire Nation and stuff like that. Can you give a little bit of advice for people that want to build a brand around their content and how you're able to go about doing that so well?

John Lee Dumas: I mean, if you want to belong to a tribe, to community, I mean, that's just like us as human beings. So you want to give them. You want to say, “Listen, if you're going to spend your time with me, I want you to know that you're part of something. You're part of a movement. You're part of a community. You're part of a tribe. You're part of the family” and I think that's really important to recognize and to say and when you're having a one on one conversation to me right now, I think it's important for you sometimes to turn to your audience audibly and just say, “Hey, I know you're listening” and that's why if you listen to my show, I don't know if you'll hear me say, “Fire Nation.” Like a couple things that I really want to make sure that you take out of this 'cause what am I doing then? I'm turning away from my guest and I'm turning towards my audience and I'm letting them know that I'm thinking about them. I'm creating this content for this. I'm in with them and that's a really important critical part of the pie.

Trevor Fenner: Thanks for that tip, John. Awesome. And yes, my audience, I'm sure you guys out there that are listening, really do appreciate John. John Lee Dumas, host of EOFire, amazing podcast, been around for so long. He isn't just doing podcasting and he isn't just doing brand building but John, you're also doing amazing things with eCommerce. You've created tons of products. Not just information products, also physical products. You've created The Freedom Journal which I just actually purchased as well so I'm actually going to be able to consume that and stuff like that. I'm really excited about that. Can you talk a little bit about your story of building products and what you've learned in the process of launching and actually selling physical products online?

John Lee Dumas: So I think what's amazing about building an audience like you're doing and like what I've done is you build that audience through free, valuable, and consistent content and when you're delivering free, valuable, and consistent content to an audience, what are you doing? You're building up know, like, and trust. You're audience is beating to know you better, like you more, trust you more. These are critical factors because now you can turn to your audience and say, “Listen, I've been delivering this great content to you for free. You've been consuming it. I know that you know, like, and trust me more than you did at least when we started, what your biggest struggle right now? What is your number struggle?”

John Lee Dumas: And then you listen and they tell your pain points, their obstacles, their challenges. And then, what do you do? You create the solution for them and that solution can be a physical product, a community, coaching, whatever that might be. So I now have three physical products that we have via eCommerce and that's “The Freedom Journal: Accomplish Your Number One Goal in a 100 Days,” because guess what? My audience told me they were having trouble setting and accomplishing goals. Number two, I have “The Mastery Journal” because my audience was telling me that they struggled with productivity with discipline and with focus so guess what? I created Master, Productivity, Discipline, and Focus in 100 Days. And that's another journal that we've created that sells to my audience incredibly well.

John Lee Dumas: And then we have a lot of people who say, “John! We want to start a podcast! We want to know how to actually podcast, how to come up with the idea and all the way through launch.” So, of course, you know, we have Podcaster's Paradise like you mentioned. You have eCommerce Paradise. But we also just launched a physical product called “The Podcast Journal” which is idea to launch in 50 days. So in the 50 days you follow this process, you will launch your podcast.

John Lee Dumas: So that's the process right there. You build an audience. You build the know, like, and trust. You ask them what they're struggling with. You listen. You create the solution for them. And then you offer it to them and that's how we do things.


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Trevor Fenner: Yeah man. What an amazing process! Can you talk a little bit about the launch phase of these products? It's a huge build up to the launch and you do this through multiple channels and stuff like that. What all goes into a launch for one of your products?

John Lee Dumas: Yeah, so you know, launch is when you get to go all in because that's when you can create buzz, excitement, momentum around your product, around your service, and so that's why the first two launches that we did with the Freedom and Mastery Journal, we utilized Kickstarter 'cause we knew Kickstarter was like really trusted brand that we could really get people excited about where they could come on and they could commit to investing in one of the journals but we could also offer some other things too like coaching or events or book signings or interviews with me, et cetera, et cetera. So we were really able to do a lot of cool things in line with that as well.

John Lee Dumas: So that was a really cool thing that we were able to do, kind of build excitement around that launch. Both of them where 33 days so we kind of had this 33 days launch window that we had that we really able to push content out with a beginning and end date and that's what's critical about launches is you have to have an end date. A lot of people don't have end dates with their launches which is a huge mistake because a vast majority of your sales come during the closing hours of your launch. It's just crazy. Just always happens and every single time, it blows me away.

John Lee Dumas: So you need to have that kind of process in mind because it's all about the launch.

Trevor Fenner: Yes, I can't agree more. I just finished up reading the book called, “Launch” by Jeff Walker and if you guys listening to this haven't read “Launch” yet, you have to read that book. What John is talking about is true. The last closing hours, you'll get most of your sales. John, you're doing a really cool new thing now. I just checked out your website. It's called Do you want to talk a little bit about that and how you're helping people find their big idea?

John Lee Dumas: I'd love to! Thanks for sharing that! And for me, you know, honestly, it goes back to that system that we talked about earlier. I ask my audience, “What are you struggling with?” And they said, “John, like we just don't feel like we have that big idea that so many of your guests on Entrepreneurs on Fire. They seem to have one big idea and they go all in and they crush it and they dominate.” And guess what? My listeners were right and I listened to them and I said, “Well, you know what?” I can identify pretty clearly that all of my listeners and likely all of your listeners too, by the way, are in one of three camps. Camp number one, they don't have a big idea, camp number two, they have a lot of ideas but they're not sure which is the big idea, or camp number three, they have a big idea but they need clarity. They need focus. They need direction. Period.

John Lee Dumas: So I created a completely free training and this is what I'm really proud of 'cause I just want people to get to their North star and that free training is called So if you visit,, you will, in a very short time frame, have your big idea and it's something that I just say to people, “Don't you feel like you're worth the time investments of this free training to either get your big idea or identify your big idea from a lot of your ideas or give yourself clarity, focus, and direction on your current big idea?” And the answer is “Yes, you are worth the time investment.” So get over to and take that free training, consume it, get your North star, and you'll be off to the races.

Trevor Fenner: Yes man! Couldn't agree more! It's so important to find your one big thing in life and I'm really happy you're doing that 'cause I think that really does matter a lot. Another thing that you got involved in which was really, really cool was a feature film called, “The Think and Grow Rich” film. And I was really excited to see that 'cause my buddy Joel was actually a part of the production behind that.

John Lee Dumas: Cool!

Trevor Fenner: And had actually stopped you on production one day and asked you, “Hey John, can you do a quick Snapchat for my buddy Trevor?” And you did a Snap and you said, “Hey man! Whatever you're doing, just create content. Don't stop. Crush it man!” And it just stuck with me and it made me realize I need to create content everyday. I've been doing it ever since. Do you want to talk a little bit about your involvement in that film and what that was like for you and stuff like that?

John Lee Dumas: That's a really cool story, number one. Thank you for sharing. I do remember making that Snap for you. That's cool. Didn't know I'd ever meet you in person so “in person” so that's cool. But for me, I look back at some of the books that just catapulted me on my journey and “Think and Grow Rich” was definitely one of them. It's a great book by Napoleon Hill. I loved it. I consumed it. It really helped me with my set and a lot of other things, getting going on my entrepreneur journey. And so when it came time for me, about a thousand episodes in on Entrepreneur's on Fire, to look back 'cause I always ask the question in the lightning rounds, what would be one book you recommend? I did a tally of the all the books and “Think and Grow Rich” was one of the top three books recommended in over 1,000 episodes so by over 1,000 entrepreneurs, “Think and Grow Rich” was in the top three. So I wrote a big article about it. Tim Ferris actually shared it so it went pretty viral and it was a really cool experience.

John Lee Dumas: And when it came time for the movie “Think and Grow Rich” to come out, I think that they went through a couple of different channels, saw that, and saw a few other things that I had been doing that was very synergistic with what they were doing with the movie “Think and Grow Rich.” And so I connected with a couple of the producers, flew out to San Diego, did the filming, had a great time doing it. Now, you can actually visit and you can just see my personal clip of “Think and Grow Rich” which I'm very proud of. I think it came out really well. I told a really real, raw emotional story about my time in the military. So I think it was beneficial for a lot of people. I've had a lot of veterans reach out to me from that 'cause I'm a military veteran myself of eight years.

John Lee Dumas: So that was pretty cool thing that I was able to experience but again, that's at and it's just a free. You can see my clip in that movie “Think and Grow Rich” for free and it's not super long. So I'd say if you want a little motivation, go check it out.

Trevor Fenner: Sounds great, yeah. So, you've done so much and you've gotten so far. Maybe we can rewind all the way back to the very beginning. What's your like one biggest tip you have for somebody who wants to start out on this journey? And maybe they're struggling to get going or something like that. Besides finding their big idea, what's the best piece of advice you can offer them?

John Lee Dumas: Biggest piece of advice I can offer is listen. You need to practice patience. It's not going to happen overnight for Trevor. It's not going to happen overnight for me. It's not going to happen overnight for anybody. Like it's patience. People that win, put up the content. When you start up putting consistent, it wasn't like the world changed overnight. No. It's a slow, steady grind and it's a slow, steady growth.

John Lee Dumas: One of the quotes that I love is and it's my quote so I better love it. “Don't focus on getting bigger. Focus on getting better.” Because so many people are spending so much time trying to get bigger, driving people to their content but guess what? Their content stinks. So you're never going to win with that mentality, with that process, with that strategy. So don't focus on getting bigger. Focus on getting better because if you do better work, produce better content, you're going to win on a bigger level. Period.

Trevor Fenner: That's awesome, John. Man, thank you so much for all the value bombs you dropped. The audience, I'm sure, they appreciate it so much. Thanks for being on the podcast and I hope to see you in person someday soon.

John Lee Dumas: It would be cool brother. Take care! Thanks for having me on! I really appreciate it! And everybody out there, prepare to ignite.


EOFire podcast:

Podcaster's Paradise:

Freedom Journal:

Mastery Journal:

Podcast Journal:

Your Big Idea:


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eCommerce Paradise was created by Trevor Fenner of Seattle, Washington in 2015 to help you, the entrepreneur, to start and scale your own eCommerce business selling high-ticket products online with the drop shipping fulfillment method so you can make more profit per sale, have a sustainable and evergreen online business, get started with very little upfront investment, and live a location independent lifestyle. Trevor owns multiple 7-figure High-Ticket Drop Shipping eCommerce stores and is a digital nomad, traveling the world while working remotely with the help of his team of over 10 virtual assistants from around the world. Trevor is currently located in Bali, Indonesia. Trevor is also a passionate skateboarder, surfer, scuba diver, photographer, environmentalist, outdoorsman, fitness and tattoo enthusiast.

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